Zurich’s Secret To Fostering Belonging At Work

Laura Rock from Zurich North America outlines their commitment to fostering belonging in the workplace, emphasizing HR's crucial role in this process and the strategies for empowering managers. She shares how these efforts are woven into the company's core values and the positive impact on employee engagement and inclusivity.

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In today's HR Leaders Podcast episode, we are excited to host Laura Rock, Chief HR Officer at Zurich North America.

Laura shares how Zurich North America is fostering belonging at work and the essential role HR plays in this transformative journey. She delves into the strategies implemented to equip managers with the necessary tools and training, creating an inclusive culture where every member feels valued and respected.

🎓 In this episode, Laura discusses:

1. The role of HR in facilitating an environment of belonging and the impact on employee engagement

2. The methods Zurich uses to provide managers with the resources they need to nurture a culture of inclusivity

3. How Zurich North America's approach to fostering belonging at work has become integral to their corporate ethos

Discover what emotional salary means – and how you can motivate employees beyond pay.

Great recognition is more than just a thank you program. By leveraging frequent and meaningful recognition, Achievers drives business results that matter to organizations like retention, productivity, and engagement. Our platform makes it easy for employees to recognize each other anywhere, whether in-office, remote, or on-the-go.

The Achievers Workforce Institute reveals that two-thirds of employees have one foot out the door in 2024. The top reason for job hunting? Better compensation. But money isn’t the whole story. Employees are seeking not only monetary salary, but emotional salary too.

Laura Rock 0:00

And we can talk about well being well being to me as the intrinsic but you know, the recognition the external recognition matters tremendously. And achievers has been a great platform for us because it really democratizes how we give feedback

Chris Rainey 0:21

Hi, everyone, welcome back to the HR leaders podcast. On today's episode, I'm joined by Laura rock, who's the chief HR officer at Zurich, North America. During the episode, she shares Hauser in North America are fostering belonging at work, hrs role and contribution to fostering belonging, how Zurich provides their managers with the tools and training to create inclusive cultures where everyone feels like they belong. And lastly, she says how they're holding us accountable for fostering belonging through clear expectations and regular feedback. As always, before we jumped to the video, make sure hit the subscribe button, turn on notification bell and follow us on your favorite podcast platform. But that being said, let's jump in. Laura, welcome to the show. How are you?

Laura Rock 1:06

I'm doing well today. Chris, how are you very colorful

Chris Rainey 1:09

and bright, vibrant. You chose today as you guys. What? They're an occasional spring okay, we know brand UK is just miserable right now. It's just rain spraying. Hopefully we get some thoughts coming out at some point.

Laura Rock 1:27

You know what sometimes it's also how I feel on Mondays. It's an attitude, right? So sometimes you have to bring it yourself.

Chris Rainey 1:33

That's true. Even if you're not feeling it. You can just yeah, you can you can make it. Yeah, force it. I have that in the morning. I my way. My version of that is my gratitude journal. Morning, I look at my gratitude journal. And even if I feel like down and stressed I kind of look at all the things I do have. And I'm grateful for it. And it kind of resets my day. It changes the way I attack the day, if that makes sense.

Laura Rock 1:56

Makes perfect sense. Yeah. Minus minus exercise. Yeah. I like to do that you get the endorphins going you, you get a chance to clear your head and you just everything's firing as you're going into the office.

Chris Rainey 2:11

Yeah, definitely. Before we jump into love one little bit more about you personally, and your journey to where we are now.

Laura Rock 2:17

Right. So I've been in HR for 32 years, I've been in insurance companies for 32 years. Wow. Never thought I would do either of those two things. So I was a pre revolutionary Russian history major in college.

Chris Rainey 2:36

Well, that's a new one. That's I've never known about all of them. But you just you just took it there do a whole nother level as I went pretty deep.

Laura Rock 2:47

But I knew that when I came out, I didn't necessarily want to teach. And that's kind of all you're gonna do or right or research with that type of degree. But I also rounded myself out with business classes. And so I knew after I graduated, I moved up to Chicago, I just started sending cold calls out to companies and landed at one of the big eight at the time accounting firms, Coopers and Lybrand and came in as a 401 K plan, consultant, I reconcile 401 K accounts for customers. And I did that for three years. And one of my customers was Franklin Life Insurance Company, and they were down in Springfield, Illinois, and my husband and I wanted to move down there and start his business started our family. And it was just logical that I would join the HR department. And that's how I got into HR, nothing. Nothing more complicated than that. But that's where it started. And I have not changed companies since 1992. When that happened, why companies that changed on me multiple times. And I changed roles within my companies. But I'm I'm a victim or a product, I guess I would say of mergers and acquisitions. So

Chris Rainey 4:13

interesting. Is that part of what's kept you in there so long because the environment is constantly changed. The business is constantly changing the challenges I'm sure that comes along with those changes that What's kept you so engaged for so long? Very

Laura Rock 4:25

much. So I mean, it really is and sometimes it's for the good and sometimes it's not for the good, right I've had I found myself in situations where this doesn't feel like the right fit. And but I've had the opportunities to then make choices within the broader because that's what's great about insurance, right? I've worked in started off in life. I've worked in auto I've worked in direct to consumer auto so there's no agent, I worked in our corporate center of settings and then now I'm in commercial and There are also different. And there's just, there's just a lot to learn. And there's just, there's a lot of opportunity.

Chris Rainey 5:08

Right, right. No question. But when you're interviewing candidates and trying to attract candidates, what's a common misconception that you see about insurance from from the feedback that people have come up with?

Laura Rock 5:23

They just they don't understand two things. One, a lot of our candidates don't understand the, the, the social fabric that insurance creates. And they're, you know, they want to work with somebody who's got purpose. And it's like, how do you not have not have more purpose than were there during the times of your need. I'm also on the board of the Red Cross. And I love the fact that those two things come so together after a time of disaster, the Red Cross, and that's the insurance that shows up to try to help you get back to your life where it was. So I think that really, when when we start talking to people about a career in insurance, that starts to resonate, they realize there's so many things that they do that they couldn't do if insurance didn't exist to help protect them. Yeah. That's the biggest one. The other one is, it's just they feel like there's, you know, it's not a lot of opportunity. And there's a vast amount of opportunity. And it's

Chris Rainey 6:25

clearly you've been there that long. You're, you're you're a beacon of the opportunity.

Laura Rock 6:32

I mean, I've lived in multiple parts of the US I've lived overseas, I mean, all of these things. Were opportunities I had working in the insurance industry. Yeah,

Chris Rainey 6:42

I know, a big focus for you right now. Is is belonging. We hear this a lot, we hear the word belonging come up quite a lot. But I just wanted to start by understanding what is your views on what belonging means? What does it mean to belong? What is your perspectives, I realized that during my conversations, that changes quite a lot from different leaders that I speak to. So I'm only for you personally, what does it mean, when you use the word belonging?

Laura Rock 7:09

Yeah. Now, that's an excellent question. And it does vary, right? There's, there's some very interesting definitions out there. And this is one where I do think it is individual, right? What do what do people actually feel? What do we want it to be, though, I mean, we want belonging to mean, you, it brings up a lot of these other concepts, we're talking about authentic self, right. But it is a space, we want you to have a safe space where you can come in, and you can feel free to express yourself and show up as yourself and trust that that's acceptable. Right? That's, that's the, that's the diversity of experience, the diversity of opinion that we are looking for, to make, you know, to make the culture truly thrive, and innovate. I was listening to Brene Brown, who does a lot on this topic, and she's fabulous. And just the other day, as she was explaining, belonging, the opposite of belonging is fitting in. And I thought, helped me understand that fitting in means you're gonna come in and you're not being yourself, you're finding a way to modify yourself so that you fit in to whatever that is. Belonging is the opposite. You come as you are. And then you're part of the group. I love. That was an interesting.

Chris Rainey 8:39

So I was just thinking about what he said, I never really thought about it like that. Yeah. Because fitting in requires you to dedicate energy in order to mold yourself to something does not you if that makes sense. And that's streaming on someone, and it's not sustainable, longer term, as well. No, it's

Laura Rock 9:01

not. And to your point, it's just it's where does the energy go? If you're having to spend so much energy during your day, trying to be what someone else expects you to be? And you don't have that energy to just really be yourself and focus and contribute? What is uniquely you, which is the whole reason we should have hired you in the first place? Right? Yeah,

Chris Rainey 9:28

because a lot of times we say that during the interview process, and then it doesn't matter because they come into an environment that doesn't allow for that psychological safety and belonging. So you know, I feel like it's well intended sometimes by leaders and managers, and then they come into an organization that is not set up that way to your point, like creating an environment where you feel like you can belong, you can thrive, and then they just leave just as quick walks out the door, right. Just Just to go back for a second. Why why is this something that you and the team have been pointed out something really important? Was there something that happened or something that you've sat down and identified that you said, Hey, we need to put some time and energy towards this?

Laura Rock 10:10

For two reasons, right? I would say as we were on our DAP journey, and for a longtime we were all DNI, and we really, you know, stepped back and after George Floyd and said, this needs to be so much more. And equity has to be part of this conversation. But belonging is the ultimate outcome of of any of that it's almost a chicken and egg. If you don't have belonging, will you ever get any of the others, when you get the others belonging is the ultimate outcome. And so for us, we started talking about belonging, a lot more than we had. And some of the feedback from our employees and our surveys where we got a lot of people that feel highly, highly engaged, and they do feel like they belong, but we have a fairly solid sizable group that says they don't. And we want to close that gap. We want everyone to feel equal like, yeah, like, this is a place for them.

Chris Rainey 11:11

What do you believe that hrs role is in this? Because I think when I think about di belonging, I think there's certain It's the circle of everyone. And every function and every part of the organization. Obviously, it's kind of HR takes the lead on it. But what's HR role in this in your mind?

Laura Rock 11:30

I love the question, because I do think it's a multipronged. Issue, we all have to address I do this clearly a role for HR, we talked about it, and I'm happy to talk more about it, the role of the manager, right is so critical, there's, there's a role that actually the individual has to show up and lean into some of this, right. And so, you know, when we talk about what HR can do here, one, we create awareness, right, and we listen to employees, we go out, and we listen, we do focus groups, we do surveys. And hopefully we have that trusting environment where they can be open, and our employees have proven that they that they are. So our job is then to feed that back to the organization and then help design, you know, initiatives or think about things we could be doing differently, revisit our own practices and policies for things that might have unintended consequences. So we have to listen, we have to design and we have to socialize, and then we have to be willing to adapt. And then what I see as one of our biggest responsibilities is we have to create capacity. And creating capacity is what we do by working with our managers. And we have a huge initiative around managerial excellence. And what does it mean to be a manager. And it's not just a position on an org chart, you have people accountabilities, and you have to lean into these and if you don't, we can design all the programs in the world. But if it's not happening, and it's, you know, in the business, and each and every one of our departments and functions consistently. We're missing an opportunity.

Chris Rainey 13:25

Yeah. You mentioned management, as you said, a huge part of the experience, right? And then people's experience and belonging is directly impacted. A lot of times by their relationship. With that, with that with that manager, what are some of the tools and training that you're providing to managers to help support them? So

Laura Rock 13:45

we've really created an ecosystem around our managers. And it starts when they first are promoted, or they're first hired into a managerial role. I'm on every call, we do them by monthly, I think, depending on the volume, I'm on the call, my team is on the call. And it's really just to set the tone. What do you think relations?

Chris Rainey 14:07

What do you call them? Is their name for those call? What do you call those? Just accuracy? Man,

Laura Rock 14:11

new manager? Welcome calls. Okay, cool. Yeah, simple as that. You know, congratulations. You're, you know, you're great. We're thrilled to have you in this role. But right, there's accountabilities that come with this, and it's going to push you out of your comfort zone. I talk about the fact every single one of you has something to learn, but you have something to teach. We put them in a cohort. We talk about the programs that they're going to be going through because we do do then we follow that up with new manager training, which is typical. What we also do though, is we make sure as I said they're put in a cohort. And so we try to get them to be there and support each other through the first year as their as their Learning the organization or learning the role. We've also, we created upward manager feedback. That's one of the things we talked to them about to say, you will receive feedback twice a year through our engagement survey or manager survey, from your own employees on how you're doing around building trust and giving feedback and creating the safe spaces, we expect, you're going to pay attention to that, and you're going to use that to learn and grow. And then we also have what we call and, you know, similar to what I was talking about earlier, we have a network of manager champions that are just seated throughout business. And, you know, that's part of their role. In addition to HR business partners we have out there we have manager champions that are managers themselves in the business, and they're there to be eyes, ears and really help embed the work that we're talking about, and then bring back what's working, what's not working feedback, and help us continue to just improve what we're doing. Yeah.

Chris Rainey 16:07

You mentioned those, the cohorts to groups to communities, do you have a way to recognize them? That's scalable, because I think that's one of the challenges to be able to do that, especially in a large organization.

Laura Rock 16:21

And sorry, to recognize them? In what way

Chris Rainey 16:24

in terms of the feedback that you mentioned, do you have any tools or technology to gather that data? Because if you're going to have those conversations, like you meant to say, Hey, this is a way to hold them accountable in another way, as well, as well as encouraged conversations and support. But it's hard to keep a hold of all that data, if that makes sense. And so

Laura Rock 16:43

we generally identify as somebody who's going to go in and help facilitate the cohort conversations. So just yesterday, I was in a peer advisory cohort conversation. I was there as a participant, somebody else was facilitating it. And it's meant to be safe spaces. For us. This was with our leadership team, out of some, some new leadership training that we're we've rolled out. And it was really just meant for us to work together to say, here's something I'm struggling with, give me your feedback. There's a facilitator there. While it is a safe space, we, you know, again, certainly if there's something there's themes, we worked with the facilitators, or they're just general things, are there things people are struggling with that we need to do more of do less of try to get that generalized feedback.

Chris Rainey 17:33

Yeah. Could you say some of the sort of projects that you've put in place in terms of creating a culture of belonging that really stand out to you that you're proud of given after the feedback you've received?

Laura Rock 17:46

You know, I am really proud of the new manager welcome calls. I did receive a call right after we started these from a woman who had just joined us, she'd been a manager for insurance for 20, some odd years, right? Very well seasoned. And she just called me and said, Listen, I just want to say thank you. And all the carriers, I've worked at all the roles I've taken. No one ever did that no one ever pulled me aside as a manager and said, This is what we expect of you. And she said, You know, it's just really cool that you do that. Doesn't take a lot of time, you know, I'm there for an hour or 45 minutes. I would also point to, again, I talked about the managerial excellence in general, I think that's really moved us forward in terms of creating that manager. As I said, distribution capability. Inclusion at Zurich is another one. So you also asked what can HR do? I mean, there is a role that we play, in terms of providing the platform to have conversations on on these issues. And we're just rolling out a program called inclusion at Zurich that we've rolled out with our senior teams, and now we're rolling it out to managers and employees. And it's exactly that. It's how do you create this safe space? For everyone to be part of this conversation? Yeah. Right. It's not just because of the color of my skin. And it's not just because of my gender, we are all different in different ways, right? I as I like to say, right, just because you look like you belong, that doesn't mean you feel like you belong, right. And, you know, that's there's so much about us. That's, as we say, under the waterline, right? This is what you see, but there's so much more that sits behind that. And those are the things that we can start to find a way to have those conversations and create those connections. You start to start to reshape people's expectations of others and and that That's how you start to really create that, that understanding which to me that when you feel understood, that's the entree to feel like you belong.

Chris Rainey 20:09

Yeah. For your inclusion program, is that something who's leading those conversations internally? Are you bringing in the external speakers and coaches that

Laura Rock 20:19

we worked with? We worked with Deloitte to design the program, and they helped facilitate at our senior level, our first several sessions, now that we're rolling it out, we've done training the trainer, and it'll be a mix of our own facilitators and our leaders will play a role in taking those conversations forward.

Chris Rainey 20:41

Yeah, we got connected for achievers. And this conversation, what were your thoughts in terms of going down that route of reward recognition, making sure people feel valued and heard? Was that also weaved into the strategy? Was that part of that conversation?

Laura Rock 20:58

Absolutely. I mean, the recognition is to me, how do you, you know, that's, to me is the extrinsic, right? And we can talk about well being well, being, to me is the intrinsic, but, you know, the recognition that external recognition matters tremendously. And achievers has been a great platform for us, because it really democratizes how we give feedback, I can give feedback to my teams, I can give feedback to anybody else's teams, you know, peer to peer can give feedback. It's, it's, it's a wonderfully robust system. And we just, we actually just did Employee Appreciation Week, think at the beginning of was that a no, that would have been, maybe April, or federal February, I can't remember. But we have over 91% of our employees received some recognition through our achievers platform. And, and so we really do a big push, we want to make sure you know, it's recognized. Today's the day to recognize good managers, you know, today's the day to recognize great teams, Today's a day and people lean into it. And platform itself makes it really simple to do.

Chris Rainey 22:18

I think I was thinking about what you said, they also go out to the DEI work that you just mentioned, because it also creates a level playing field, from a DI perspective, right. Now, so some of those underrepresented voices to be recognized and heard at the same time.

Laura Rock 22:36

And I think it's a, you know, it's a missed opportunity. If organizations are not there don't have a robust recognition program, and they just rely on rewards, right? It's got to be both, as we say, recognize the journey, reward the outcome. And so you will eventually get rewarded for what you deliver through, you know, merit increases or promotions or something. People want to be recognized during that journey as well. Right? So you really need to do both.

Chris Rainey 23:08

It was funny, I'll tell you a story from my Christmas last year. And this is really right, you can't make this up. So my, my wife's aunt came over from Canada. And she she's an executive in a very large financial institution. And then she was talking to me, because she knows I'm in HR, she also worked in HR, by the way. And she was like, Oh, I got recognized for this, right. And she showed me and it was like white letters, like a white labeled version. So I had no idea that it was actually achievers, but it was like the white labeled version of it. And I was like, oh, cool, like what you're gonna get and like, she was like, I can choose like a jumper with like, the logo on it. So got it got some some company swag. And like, she was really, really excited about it, to talk to me about and I was like, and she's been there for like four years. So she really appreciates that maybe even more than some who thought I want to be recognized. And when I looked at the bottom of the app, it said I was like, she's like, why are you laughing? Chris? I was like, that were like, I work with them. And she's like, well, who are they? I was like, No, it's the what you're looking at a white labeled version of it. But he just may put a smile to my face because it was something so small. It was just some like some, some company merch that she she used her points on and I was like, wow, like, I've heard of it before I have conversations but as a real life moment where someone in the family did that. And then it just what was really cool, sorry to tell because I was like, it really doesn't make a difference. Well, it does

Laura Rock 24:33

make a difference. I mean, I still remember to this day back, one of my previous insurance companies, we had a point system, I was able to get a stare timer at the day. Again, not not a high end anything. But we were also able to get a gas grill. Now. My husband and I probably didn't have enough money to go out and get those things ourselves. I got it through the programs. I had him around for years. And you know, I always refer Flat did not maybe every time but to this day, I still remember what I got. I still remember what it meant. Yeah.

Chris Rainey 25:07

Telling the story right now.

Laura Rock 25:10

I tell them a story right now. I mean, that stuff that stuff matters. It really does. Yeah.

Chris Rainey 25:16

A lot of companies I'm speaking to right now going through this transition of implementing something similar. Having gone through the journey, what advice would you give to them looking back, when you first went on this journey to implement something like this, because you know, it's not easy to let's not pretend it's easy to do that. But I'd love to hear your advice to them that are on the journey. Given having given the fact you gone through it, I

Laura Rock 25:38

would say first find a really good partner, right? You want the what you want is you want, why are you doing it, right? You want the use of technology. Because today, anybody can go out and say thank you, or they can write a note, people don't write notes, because it takes time, right. And you gotta find it anyway, you want software that people can have easily accessible, that they can go out there and they can, again, you want it meaningful, but you also want it to be able to be pretty easy to do to recognize somebody. So for that, the flipside, I would say is don't make it too easy. Right? You still want it to be meaningful, we found our managers were spending a lot of our dollars that we put into the program just to say a attaboy on recognition, someone else got gave, and they weren't giving meaningful feedback. So we took those dollars away from the managers and said, we still want you to do that. But we want you to do it. Words, we want you to talk about what they did and why it was important. So you don't want it to become so transactional. It's almost like

Chris Rainey 26:47

yeah, the great job doesn't work. Great job. Okay, well. Yeah, yeah, get

Laura Rock 26:54

those 20. You know, those 20 points. But yeah, you so you want it to be a balance of the two. Yeah.

Chris Rainey 27:01

And I suppose that's the part where you can help train internally, your managers not trained

Laura Rock 27:06

internally. Yeah, we do a lot of that with managers. And again, the Cheevers platform allows us to run great reports, we can see, you know, where's the utilization? You know, where do we need to focus more? Talk about why my fork of you makes a difference.

Chris Rainey 27:24

When you think about your talent, talent strategy? Do you look at this as a pipeline and connect that in some way to see, okay, these people are constantly being recognized as great leaders, great managers, or perhaps people that you want to bring, promote to be a manager that you connect that data to look and say, wow, there's some really talented talent that we may have missed in that's being recognized.

Laura Rock 27:53

Hopefully, organically happens, right? If I've got a lot of managers who are recognizing us particular employees and great things they do, hopefully, they're already carrying that into the talent management conversation. But it's it's an interesting thought we haven't mined the data in that way. That

Chris Rainey 28:10

was just a random question.

Laura Rock 28:16

No, I know exactly where your mind is going. And I see the next day see the next product for you. But you know, what, we also get a lot of birthdays and anniversary celebrations that happen in the system. Right? So yeah, so we can always pull those out. And really just look at it. Because we have categories, we set up categories within our moments that matter. Making a difference, right, make it happen, collaborate, teamwork. And you select a category that you're giving the feedback, kudos on. So we also can monitor trends that way. Yeah.

Chris Rainey 28:55

Also, again, just making it really easy.

Laura Rock 28:58

It's just really easy. A couple of clicks, and you're there. Yeah,

Chris Rainey 29:03

definitely. We talked about we randomly for a conversation with Dave auric. You mentioned the concept of HR beyond HR, as part of your managerial excellence. Could you share what you meant by that level? I think that's really cool.

Laura Rock 29:18

Yeah, the the words we like to use is you know, HR, business, lead, HR support it. And for us, it is that concept of, I can't, I can teach, and I can create awareness and I can Creek capability, but I can't make it happen day in day out. And, you know, when we look at our engagement survey results as a as an example, we've got great engagement survey results. I mean, we're above the high performing norm. But that's still what that's 87% of our population. I have sit back and think about what what about those other three 14% of the population, what is their experience? Like? And And why isn't it the same? And where do you get that inconsistency in delivery. And that is to me where we were having you know, any large initiative, we roll out, we make sure we have a business sponsor, somebody who's sitting on our executive committee needs to be the one who's going to sponsor this, and they have to commit, that it matters to them, and they'll talk about it, right, they'll help make it happen. And they'll help drive it, and then where it where we need it. We also just create additional champions, as I mentioned earlier, that sit in the business. And so we have listening champions that are networks throughout the organization that help on the engagement survey, we have well being champions, networked in the organization that help drive our well being initiatives. Right. So for me, that type of tie, and when we do meetings, when we do you know, education, they're the ones leading it, those are the voices that are leading it. I mean, HR is always there, we'll you know, we helped design

Chris Rainey 31:09

does everything.

Laura Rock 31:12

It does change, it's not, it's not HR saying you need to go do this, it's it's your own leadership saying you need to do this. And when they say it enough, right? It their mindset changes, right. And so, for us, that's been, you know, we've been working that way, the last many years, and it really has changed the dynamic, it doesn't feel anymore, you know, some organizations HR and the rest feel like us and them. It doesn't, and by the way, they help improve our work, they, you know, we might go out there and pitch something to them. And they're like, not what we need, not what we want to do right now. It's like, okay, all right, let's just, you know, let's reframe this, let's think about it, how can we do it differently.

Chris Rainey 31:59

It's a good partnership, even even HR can get caught up in its own its own way. Skewed views and perspectives, right. So it's important that you get that diversity of four diversity of debt. And these are the people that are serving your customers right on the front line. So you may think you have all the ideas, and no to business, but these are the people that truly live and breathe the business every single day. So and to empower them to feel like they have part of that talk about belonging, right, from the very getgo, all the way back to the beginning of the conversation, if you feel like you truly belong, and you have a voice, that's what you're doing with those. And that that then permeates down to be defining and shaping the culture of the organization, as well.

Laura Rock 32:44

And I love that you brought up the customer. So for us, you know, to provide excellent customer service, it's got to start with how we provide service to our employees, what does that employee experience look like? If you're providing a subpar employee experience? That's not a turn around and provide anything higher to our customers? Right? Yeah. So you know, that's why I think there's such an important tie between the employee experience and the customer experience, and we have to, we have to rationalize those and link those up.

Chris Rainey 33:19

Yeah, we mentioned Dave auric earlier, you know, you know, his opinions on that. When it comes when it comes to the customer. So yeah, he'll be listening. Listen, before you go, I could talk to you forever. First and foremost, thank you for coming on the show. It's been really cool to hear your personal journey and an experience where we are now and and to hit a great what you're doing. And Tony I know it's just the beginning because ongoing, this isn't a project that ends this is continuous, as well and happy to hear that it's going really well. What would be your sort of parting advice to future CHR OHS? They're going to be sitting in your seat one day, and then where can people reach out to you if they want to say hi, and connect with you?

Laura Rock 34:04

So I'll take the last first you can always reach out to me at Laura dot rock and Zurich na.com I'm happy to connect with anyone my parting advice would be start where your organization is right don't don't try to pick up somebody else's for if it's not where your organization is. So it starts with a lot of just understanding where are your employees? How are they feeling about things talk to your ERGs you know if you're doing surveys are you asking about belonging because I you know if you can land that I trust your landing everything else trust is there in the organization your managers are doing the right things well being is probably really not a problem for you because that ultimate outcome and belonging is really are your Bellwether, so wouldn't be my advice.

Chris Rainey 35:01

Yeah. I love the fact that you ended by touching on trust. Because that really, if you don't have that, you don't have anything as well. And it's easy. It's hard to gain and easy to lose.

Laura Rock 35:17

As well, you don't have it. You got to work on that first before you can get to any of these other topics. You got to you have to fix trust first. Oh,

Chris Rainey 35:25

I think that's a perfect way to end again. Thank you so much for coming on the show and I wish to next week Thanks. I appreciate it.

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